Post new reply — How to steal Monstra Legally

33 Post by CrusnikCore 2012-04-23 21:52:35

RomanArt wrote:

To: CrusnikCore
As i understand Awilum he doesn't allow ppl to still his project and source code and change the Autor's copyrights in the code or system!
But as i think he allow to remove his copyrights from the visual parts of the website.
btw the example is http://bustyle.com make by me, all what i removed it was the small text on visual part on the footer.
But all code with Awilum's copyrights and also Admin panel with that copyrights, and no one SAID ON THAT WEBSITE that's ENGINE BY ME! engine make by TemplateCMS it must be by this!

Dude, I was just making an example of your website as in what Awilum supposedly said it was a wrong thing to do.
But in fact, under the GNU GPL license it is not. What you did was perfectly fine.

I recently attend a lecture from Richard Stallman in my University about "Copyright" and the GNU licenses are based on 4 aspects.

0 - "The Freedom to run the program as you wish."
1 - "The Freedom to study the source code and change it so the program does your computing as you wish."
2 - "The Freedom to help others. That's the freedom to redistribute exact copy's to others when you wish."
3 - "The Freedom to contribute to your community. That's the freedom to distribute copy's of your modified version to others, when you wish."

And you can even sell your modified version. His words, not mine, and that's where the GNU GPL takes it's bases from.

One thing that's is required is to give credits to all the ones that changed the code in, for example, an AUTHORS file.

GNU GPL is against proprietary software, and it's community driven.

So why the hell is Awilum saying that I would be stealing if I completely changed the code and used it?

PS: If needed I can share the lecture. It has been recorded on video by the Student Center of Software Engineering of my University.

I hope I cleared some things people may have in their minds. Just please, read the license documentation for god's sake.

32 Post by RomanArt 2012-04-22 09:41:48

To: CrusnikCore
As i understand Awilum he doesn't allow ppl to still his project and source code and change the Autor's copyrights in the code or system!

But as i think he allow to remove his copyrights from the visual parts of the website.
btw the example is http://bustyle.com make by me, all what i removed it was the small text on visual part on the footer.

But all code with Awilum's copyrights and also Admin panel with that copyrights, and no one SAID ON THAT WEBSITE that's ENGINE BY ME! engine make by TemplateCMS it must be by this!

31 Post by CrusnikCore 2012-04-17 21:35:53

Nice info. I really though selling it would be against the license.

But there really are some very different interpretations of what it stands for all around the web.

Oh well, it seems all falls down to the moral of the user itself and not on the license limitations. That as i can see, are almost none.

EDIT

Quoting Wordpress:

"You are free to make any modifications you would like, but removing copyright (the Wordpress backlink on every frontend) would be a statement of not supporting the CMS."

30 Post by amfa 2012-04-17 17:55:45

ok.. if you read below the part you copied in your previous post it same the exact same thing i wrote in my post.
as far as i can see in the translation from google.
Except for one thing and i dont know if this is translation error or not:
Not only the author is allowed to sell the software, everyone has the right to do so

You can in fact sell GPL licences software.

I Think this is the right party of it.

Это то, что я знал и видел в GPL до недавнего времени.
Открытое, закрытое… Деньги давай!
Как оказалось, я глубоко заблуждался. На самом деле GPL тоже можно продавать.

EDIT:
And one addition which comes to my mind.
You can for example actually buy linux OS, which is GPL software as well.
It is even sold in a box from the shelf of a shop.
So someone could use TemplateCMS or Monstra make a fancy box and sell it at a shop.
This would be no violation of the GPL licence, as long as the sourcecode is within the same box our could be
obtained in the same shop for the same or lower cost (e.g. in another box)

29 Post by Awilum 2012-04-17 17:15:05

amfa, http://habrahabr.ru/post/71892/ - and a lot of articles say the same

28 Post by amfa 2012-04-17 17:05:23

I used Google Translate to translate this.. but this does not make it more right than before.
I dont know where you get those information. And I'm pretty sure there are many many misunderstandings of the GNU GPL.
But if you have a look at my link.. it's from the GNU Organisation itself.. so I think they know what their licence allow and what not.

And I don't how they could make in clearer than this:
Does the GPL allow me to sell copies of the program for money?
Yes [...]

The only thing you have to do is do contribute the source code with this.

So if someone used TemplateCMS made his own version thats totally fine.. he even is allowed to sell it BUT
if he does not give you his source code with it it's against the GPL. If he does then there is no problem at all (except for the moral issues with this but I'm talking only about legal issues at the moment).

If i want to i could immediatly start a fork with Monstra call it "Steal CMS" change the Monstra logo and sell my "Steal CMS" to everyone who want's to have a copy.
But i have to distribute the source code under the GPL licence which means everyone who bought a copy can distribute it by himself as he whishes and i have to include a text file which mentions the authors.

period.

27 Post by Awilum 2012-04-17 16:47:45

amfa,

Чтобы не приводить всей лицензии на сухом адвокатском жаргоне, сделаю экспресс-выборку основных положений:
(!) GPL обязывает разработчика предоставлять вместе с версией своей программы исходный код, более того, обязывает разработчика предъявлять этот код по первому требованию.
(!) Лицензия разрешает любое распространение исходного кода с сохранением копирайтов.
(!) Также лицензия позволяет модификацию и использование исходного кода в других продуктах. Основным требованием является GPL-лицензирование получившегося продукта и в некоторой мере сохранение указания на авторство.
(!)Запрещается использование исходного кода в коммерческом закрытом проекте.
(!) Запрещается модификация и последующее закрытие исходного кода.

Это основные положения, в общем-то они известны почти всем. Это даёт следующие преимущества GPL-проекту:
(!) Защита прав разработчика — ваш исходны код не могут начать продавать или использовать в платной системе
(!) Ваш код становится вкладом в развитие программирования — теперь каждый может доработать вашу программу, добавить новые функции или использовать ваши наработки для создания такого же свободного программного обеспечения
(!) Вы можете использовать в своём проекте тысячи и тысячи строк кода, разработанного другими программистами.
(!) Никто не мешает вам зарабатывать на программе с помощь пожертвований от благодарных потребителей или продавая свои услуги по поддержке (установке, настройке) этой программы. Кроме того подобные разработки (когда они имеют потенциал) часто спонсируются крупными компаниями и корпорациями (Google, Mozilla Found и даже с недавних пор Microsoft)
Несколько тонкостей всего вышеизложенного:
(!) Вы можете создавать для разработанной Open-Source GPL системы независимые и распространяемые отдельно платные закрытые приложения / модули / виджеты / плагины и т.д.
(!) Вы можете использовать в своём проприетарном (закрытом, коммерческом и защищенном патентами) приложении библиотеки, лицензированные под LGPL (Lesser General Public License for Libraries)
(!) Вы можете создать сообщество, которое будет развивать ваш продукт и зарегистрировать некоммерческую организацию, построив на этом свой бизнес.

I do not have much time to translate it into English over and over again.

26 Post by amfa 2012-04-17 16:30:06

Now that's a good example of "propriety theft".
He could have white labeled almost anything but he needed to provide you as the author/creator of that CMS and also he can't sell the altered CMS to his clients because the open-source GPL license prohibits that.
See the difference?

Well he can sell the altered CMS to his clients but he has to mention the original Authors (for example in an AUTHORS file) AND he has to distribute the (altered) source code unter the same conditions (so even paying for the source is ok).
But after one person has bought the altered software this person can distribute the altered software as he likes.
e.g. give it away for free making changes etc.

Does the GPL allow me to sell copies of the program for money? (#DoesTheGPLAllowMoney)
Yes, the GPL allows everyone to do this. The right to sell copies is part of the definition of free software. Except in one special situation, there is no limit on what price you can charge. (The one exception is the required written offer to provide source code that must accompany binary-only release.)
Does the GPL allow me to charge a fee for downloading the program from my site?
Yes. You can charge any fee you wish for distributing a copy of the program. If you distribute binaries by download, you must provide “equivalent access” to download the source—therefore, the fee to download source may not be greater than the fee to download the binary.

http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.htm … mmercially

I can't open the images you posted in the moment (my companies proxy is blocking nearly every filesharing site)

25 Post by CrusnikCore 2012-04-17 15:54:21

Awilum wrote:

Okey okey http://forum.template-cms.ru/topic/195/zcorp-wtf/ he is a fuckin thief. That I mean!
Template CMS
http://template-cms.ru/data/simplegallery/themes.png
and Zcorp CMS
http://i.piccy.info/i5/80/11/1621180/8.png
He said that He is Author of this CMS to his clients
http://i.piccy.info/i5/02/95/1619502/20 … 51_800.jpg
He is a fuckin thief. no matter what licence is!

Now that's a good example of "propriety theft".

He could have white labeled almost anything but he needed to provide you as the author/creator of that CMS and also he can't sell the altered CMS to his clients because the open-source GPL license prohibits that.

See the difference?

PS: A big mistake I made here. All of the above is incorrect.

24 Post by Awilum 2012-04-17 15:49:06

Okey okey http://forum.template-cms.ru/topic/195/zcorp-wtf/ he is a fuckin thief. That I mean!

Template CMS
http://template-cms.ru/data/simplegallery/themes.png

and Zcorp CMS
http://i.piccy.info/i5/80/11/1621180/8.png

He said that He is Author of this CMS to his clients
http://i.piccy.info/i5/02/95/1619502/20 … 51_800.jpg

He is a fuckin thief. no matter what licence is!

23 Post by amfa 2012-04-17 15:23:28

Hey I don't want to steal Monstra or whatever.
I just wanted to point out that you can not enforce (user notable) copyright notices or logos with the GPL.
That was the question in the first post in this thread.
So I answered the question.
But if you don't like the answer which is indeed yes instead of no as you pointed out in your answer, than the GPL was the wrong decisition for Monstra.

EDIT:
and this is true also for TemplateCMS.

Just don't use the GPL if you ever want to make a new project.

22 Post by CrusnikCore 2012-04-17 15:20:50

I lol'ed at the topic title...

I thought this conversation was closed, that's why i made you those two questions above, but you are truly pushing this matter.

Awilum, we were just discussing what the license does or does not imply. Just because i suggested this and you're not happy about it, it really doesn't give you the right to backfire any comment made without a proper argument.

I am very excited about this new open-source CMS and I think it will be great, and I will respect your wishes towards the legality of the current copyright itself. I will not remove your "Monstra CMS" name and/or link just for the sake of letting more people know about Monstra and start developing more stuff for it.

I think you are a great coder - truly speaking, I couldn't build this myself, and I think that you're thinking that I'm raging some kind of open war in these forums but i'm not. I respect you and I expect the same, nothing else.

Just for the sake of it, here's an example:

You posted as one of your examples: http://bustyle.com/

No "Template CMS" frontend name nor link; and backoffice logo altered to "Admin Panel".

21 Post by Awilum 2012-04-17 15:06:56

Mother Montra is Template CMS and two years of existence we had no such problems

Some sites Powerd by Template CMS for e.g.
http://www.piusardegna.it/
http://bustyle.com/
http://shrott.ru/
http://rem4life.ru/
http://cazamarta.ru/
http://borisov-ykt.ru/
http://poliv48.ru/
http://ubuntu-pak.tk/
http://orshagolubi.ru/
http://добровскаябольница.рф/
http://ab.kkos.ru/
http://кошкиндом48.рф/
etc...

20 Post by CrusnikCore 2012-04-17 15:04:21